Kommentarer på: Shit gamersnubbar säger till gamerbrudar. Fast omvänt.

Blir det en uppföljare om vad kvinnor säger och har sagt till manliga gamers? Alyssa Bereznaks fina krönika på gizmodo.au är en bra start för att hitta inspiration.

Det är inget problem.

Vad ska vi börja någonstans?
1) Telefontrakasserierna?
2) Öknamnen om porrmissbruk och vänlöshet?
3) Sabotagen?

Så du tycker inte att telefontrakasserier och sabotage är något som är värt att ta på allvar?
Har du läst Alyssas krönika? Jag tycker speciellt om hennes uttalande om att män som spelar Magic The Gathering måste förstå att de aldrig kan vara attraktiva för någon kvinna någonsin.

Tusentals timmar med sexistisk och homofobt trolldom och trashtalk slash förminskande kommentarer vs ett blogginlägg. Stort!

Med den logiken så borde Michael Gill överhuvudtaget inte skriva om spel. Han borde vara i Liberia och hjälpa ebolaoffer

men alltså Annan Anonym nu pratar vi väl om Gamergate och inte ebola? och en värld där det fortfarande verkar vara kvinnor vs män som gäller? och därför är argumentet tusentals timmar av sexism trashtalk förminskande kommentarer vs ett blogginlägg helt giltigt. jag förstår att det som man inte alltid är lätt att förstå hur otroligt förtryckta kvinnor är i så många sammanhang och många vill helt enkelt inte förstå för att det blir för jobbigt att öppna ögonen och kanske se sin egen roll i det hela. men tro mig, det är jobbigare att vara utsatt för det så sluta med ditt barnsliga jävla trollgnäll och se det här för vad det är.

PS ÄLSKAR VIDEON TACK MICHAEL

Elsa början själva med att låtsas som att ingen manlig nord fått utstå glåpord och till och med misshandel för sitt intresse och att kvinnor aldrig varit delaktiga.

jaha, det är det du pratar om, Annan Anonym. det är verkligen fruktansvärt att människor måste utstå mobbing och misshandel för sina intressen. jag låtsas dock inte som att det inte har hänt, jag tycker bara att pratar en om just gamergate är just det stora problemet kvinnliga spelare som är förtryckta av manliga spelare. och skriver en den typ av kommentarer som du gör under den här videon så verkar det som att en försöker jämställa och jämföra och förminska det förtrycket vilket jag personligen inte tycker att man kan göra. genom att säga typ "a men tjejer är faktiskt dumma mot killar också" blir det som att försöka hoppa över att vi lever i ett patriarkalt skitsamhälle där mäns förtryck av kvinnor är så mycket större än tvärtom. återigen, fruktansvärt om någon kvinna mobbar en man för att han spelar, jättepissigt om du blivit utsatt men det är INTE samma typ av systematiska förtryck som dessutom genomsyrar i princip alla andra aspekter av livet (eftersom det kan vara svårt att förstå utan att vara utsatt för det, här är några exempel: utbilda sig - tjäna mindre pengar än en man/gå och handla mat - trakasserad/spela musik - förminskad/ha sex - förnedrad/öppna en tidning - må dåligt över sin kropp etc etc etc.)
sen är ju den här artikeln (som Michael Gill tidigare postat?) intressant: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/05/27/your-princess-is-in-ano...

Inte så kul att vara manlig gamer jämt. Sportsnubbarna var ju mer poppis bland tjejerna generellt.

Det kan man ju hantera på olika sätt, varav två huvudlinjer kan skönjas:

1. OMGWTFBBQ GIRLZ ARE TEH SUCKS AND CAN NEVER BE A PART OF THE NERDIVERSE! Also you are all [insert misogynist slur here]. DIS IS REVENGE FOR NOT LIKING ME TWENTY YEARS AGO!

2. Kul att vi gillar samma saker, vad är din åsikt om [gamingrelaterad fråga x]?

Hahaha störtskön video. Det är mycket man känner igen.

Gulligt av dig att berätta för mig om systematiskt förtryck.
Kom tillbaka när dina släktingar ända in på 1960talet inte fick rösta om sin egen regering för att ett annat land bestämt sig för att ta deras hemland med vapenmakt.
Kom tillbaka när dina släktingar upplevt nazistockupationer.
Men det är säkert inte alls lika hemskt som att få se en bild på en kvinnlig modell i en tidning som får dig att må dåligt över din kropp.

Den gode Arthur Chu borde förövrigt använda en del av sina vinster i Jeopardy för att köpa sig en piska så han kan fortsätta sin offentliga flagelering offentligt.

Haha, åh ok Annan Anonym eftersom du själv uppenbarligen vill göra anspråk på de förtryck som de tidigare generationerna i din släkt upplevt (och som jag antar att du själv inte utsatts för? Jag förutsätter att du varken var myndig på 60talet eller levde under andra världskriget) förstår jag ärligt talat inte hur du över huvud taget kan rättfärdiga den förminskning av det dagliga förtryck som kvinnor samt normbrytande personer måste handskas med. Jag skulle vilja säga, kom tillbaka när ditt kön systematiskt våldtas i krigsföring samt t.ex. av sin bror, pappa, man, kollega eller valfri person av det motsatta könet. Kom tillbaka när hemmet är den farligaste platsen för ditt kön att befinna sig på. Kom tillbaka när ditt kön fortfarande i många länder inte får rösta, (2014, alltså inte "ända in på 1960talet") och då menar jag inte på grund av nationalitet eller etnisk tillhörighet utan enbart på grunderna av vilket kroppsligt kön du fötts med. Det ska bli intressant att se om du känner igen dig på någon av punkterna!

Så jag får inte göra anspråk på vad mina släktingar upplevt, men du får göra anspråk på vad andra kvinnor upplevt. Av någon anledning är jag inte förvånad.

"Kom tillbaka när hemmet är den farligaste platsen för ditt kön att befinna sig på. "
Har du några som helst belägg för detta?

"Kom tillbaka när ditt kön fortfarande i många länder inte får rösta, (2014, alltså inte "ända in på 1960talet")"
Ojojojoj, hela 5 länder i världen. Riktigt gigantiskt tungt argument där.

"Det ska bli intressant att se om du känner igen dig på någon av punkterna!"
Kanske skulle du ta och läsa på lite, dina exempel på kvinnligt förtryck är inte överväldigande direkt.

Jag vet ärligt talat inte vad A.Anon försöker säga längre. Han spelar martyr, säger "men du då?" och diskuterar inte ens sakfrågan. Kom till punkt!

Malcolm, har du tagit på dig någon slags uppgift att fungera som torped åt Johanna, AngryGamerKid och Elsa?

A.Anon: martyr, IGEN!? Jag vill, som antagligen de flesta av besökarna, att du ska bara förklara dig någon jävla gång.

hahahaha ok AA nu har det barkat iväg nånstans där jag inte kan följa dig. hoppas du har det trevligt i din egen värld och att du inte lider för mycket av någon typ av förtryck (obs ej ironi)! gulligullgull från min kvinnokropp

Och där bröt argumentationen samman. Det verkar som att den kvinnliga offerkoftan är så trång att det bara finns plats för vita medelklasskvinnor.

"Med den logiken så borde Michael Gill överhuvudtaget inte skriva om spel. Han borde vara i Liberia och hjälpa ebolaoffer"

Skriver du först och sen börjar du whina om random förtryck som är värre än gamertjejers problem, precis som du i ovanstående anser är ett felaktigt argument. Bra jävla G mannen.

Är misogynism så jobbigt för dig att ta till dig att du måste köra dagis-argument som "TITTA VAD DOM GÖR!"?

Klargörande innan ni läser resten:

Jag personligen anser att kvinnor har lika stor rätt som vi män att framföra sina tankar och åsikter. De har lika stor rätt som vi män i egentligen allting om jag skall vara helt ärlig. Dock håller jag för den delen inte med helt i en del resonemang som förs om spel i media nu.

Skall jag vara ärlig känns det lite som att man försöker hitta något att skylla ett samhällsproblem på. Tänker man efter lite så låter detta precis som när man försökte skylla allt våld i samhället på våldsamma videofilmer, eller för den delen, våldsamma datorspel. Mig veterligen finns där fortfarande inga direkt vetenskapligt etablerade bevis för att våldsamma spel skapar våldsamma ungdomar, även om vetenskapen fortfarande träter i ämnet.

Att sedan spelvärlden genomsyras av en allmänt usel kvinnosyn är beklagligt men snarare än avspegling av världen utanför som tittar in, snarare än att spelvärlden influerar den riktiga världen.

Betänker vi hur många människor som spelar spel som CS:GO, Call of Duty, Battlefield och liknande spel, borde vi om nu spelen hade en sådan inverkan på folk, i princip ha en betydligt våldsammare ungdom än vad vi har nu. Åter igen, detta är ett ämne som fortfarande debatteras hett rent vetenskapligt, men hitills har den sida som hävdar att våldsamma spel föder våldsamma individer inte haft några vetenskapliga bevis för den saken.

Kvinnor har under lång tid, redan innan datorspelen fanns, varit utsatta, och på sätt och vis kan jag förstå aversionen mot att där kan förekomma våldsamheter mot kvinnor i spel. Dock får vi också betänka att majoriteten av de spel som innehåller våld i majoritet handlar om män som dödar män. Jag menar på intet sätt att det nu är lika synd om oss män, men jag menar på att sett procentuellt så är spel med våldsinslag mot kvinnor lyckligtvis relativt få. Jag tror dock inte att dessa spel på något sätt faktiskt påverkar majoriteten av de män som spelar spelen till att aktivt gå ut och idka våld mot kvinnor, även om där säkerligen, som i allting, tyvärr kan finnas undantag för denna regel.

Jag må låta en smula kall där, men mitt resonemang bygger sig på att skall man följa strikt feministiskt doktrin i detta, är det spelen som påverkar männens beteende och alltså är det spelens fel. Följer man då denna doktrin fullt ut, kan man alltså egentligen inte tycka annat än att även våldsamma spel föder våldsamma individer eftersom man i princip drar samma paralleller, bara det att man använder andra ord.

Då har vi ett reellt problem, med tanke på att fler och fler kvinnor faktiskt börjat spela spel som Call of Duty, och CS:GO, och Battlefield 4, om vi skall tänka enligt denna logik. Vi riskera helt enkelt att föda en helt ny generation av våldsamma kvinnliga bankrånare, mödrar, mördare, ligister och satansdyrkare och allt annat som spelvärlden blivit beskylld för.
Personligen tror jag inte kvinnor som gillar att spela dessa spel för den delen blir på något vis våldsammare, även om där säkerligen kan finnas undantag där också, men majoriteten av de kvinnor som spelar dessa spel är fullkomligt normala individer, likaså som majoriteten av de män som spelar dessa spel också är det. Att sedan en högljudd minoritet har en ganska rutten kvinnosyn är åter igen, i mitt tycke inte något som spelen kan beskyllas för. Denna ruttna kvinnosyn har de fått redan utanför spelens värld.

Som argument för detta kan jag tillägga att även om där finns en höljudd mängd män med usel kvinnosyn, så finns där även en hel del män som faktiskt spelar dessa spel, men som inte delar samma kvinnosyn, och som faktiskt opponerar sig mot den. Hade det varit spelen som formgav männen som spelade, hade där i princip inte funnits en enda man som tyckt annorlunda, utan alla män hade tänkt exakt likadant.

Speljournalister får dessutom ett ännu större problem. Du kan inte som speljournalist glatt hojta om att du spelar Call of Duty, Battlefield 4 eller CS:GO, för att i andra sekunden analysera och kritisera andra spel sönder och samman för att de innehåller visst våld mot kvinnor eller nakenhet, därför att är du av den åsikten att spel som visar nakenhet och dylikt har en sådan inverkan på män, måste du även ha den ståndpunkten att spel som de jag refererat till ovan även leder till ökat våld i samhället och att dessa spel direkt kan beskyllas för det. Du kan inte, om du skall vara konkret i ditt tänkande, hölja det ena till skyarna och sedan kritisera det andra.

För att avsluta mitt resonemang och sammanfatta.

Den ruttna kvinnosyn som råder i världen, kommer inte från spelen. Visst kanske den till en liten del kan påverka den åt ett positivare håll, men det är inte inom spelvärlden som problemet ligger, problemet ligger utanför och det är där den måste bekämpas. Även om många män spelar spel i dessa tider, så är det i minoritet till den mängd män som inte spelar datorspel.

Som sagt, mina fem öre.. sköt er om er där ute, systrar som bröder och kram på er!

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